S3Ep34|| Happiest Sober with Madeline Forrest
Today's conversation is with your sobriety hype girl, Madeline Forrest. We talk about the importance of starting again and again, and how setbacks can often lead you and fuel you into a stronger follow through, if you pick sobriety back up after setting it down.
Madeline also shares her multiple experiences that led to her moment of clarity, the tools she used to help lay her foundation to ditch the booze, and how she navigated the relationships in her life going through sobriety.
We also dive deep into her Instagram, Happiest Sober, which has over 20,000 followers, and discuss if having social media held her accountable through her journey.
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EP 34 - Madeline Forrest
[00:00:00] Madeline: You're not ready until you're ready. It's just, everyone's gotta get to that point where they hit that like enough is enough. I'm tired of my own shit. I can't do this anymore. And whether that's losing your job, losing your kids, like a big rock bottom, or just like waking up feeling like shit. And whether it's leaving a relationship, no matter how clear it is, you just have to get to that point where you're done.
[00:00:25] Cait: Welcome to the Clearheaded podcast, your guide to sober care. I'm your host, Cait, and I'm so glad that you're here. Maybe you're on your way to work or you're ready to wind down for the night, whatever the case may be - I'm really happy to be here with you. All of these episodes drop in on people's moments of clarity surrounding their sobriety. Before we get started on this conversation, I want to ground each other with a little bit of breath. Let's start by taking a big, deep breath in... and out.
[00:01:01] Cait: Okay. Let's get Clearheaded.
[00:01:05] Cait: Today's conversation with my guest, Madeline Forrest was so wild. We discovered that we have so many similarities when it comes to our story.
[00:01:14] Cait: Even our start month and year were the same from when we stop drinking. And the way that her story and journey unfolds, although it's super similar to mine, it's also super unique. We talk about the importance of starting again and again, and how setbacks can often lead you and fuel you into a stronger follow through,
[00:01:40] Cait: if you pick sobriety back up after setting it down. We also dive into her Instagram, Happiest Sober, which has over 20,000 followers. How she started, how she feels and if having social media held her accountable through her journey.
[00:01:59] Madeline: So there are three moments that stand out for me as far as like, when things clicked.
[00:02:06] Madeline: So like three times where... so the first two where I kind of considered getting sober for the first time in like a serious way. And then the third time was when I actually did it. So the first one I was living in Australia, I lived in Australia for all of 2018. And if I was going to point to all of my worst drunken mistakes, all of my most like embarrassing moments, that like pop into my head in the middle of the day and make me cringe. It would probably be like 90% of them while I was in Australia. It was like a working holiday. And I was just there bartending and partying, drinking, like almost every single day. So it was about halfway through my year there almost exactly.
[00:02:49] Madeline: And it's really funny because up until this point I had had definitely my worst drunken mistakes ever were made. And like I had some of my worst mornings ever. But about halfway through the year I woke up and like I'd had a really uneventful night out in that, like nothing went wrong, nothing bad happened, but I just woke up.
[00:03:07] Madeline: I was disgusted by how much I had drank and I was so hungover. I just for the first time ever, I Googled, like I read up on a sober blog and I'd never done that before. And I made a sweeping statement. I was there with my sister and I was like, I'm not drinking for the month of August. Like I'm taking the month off and I drank that day.
[00:03:27] Cait: Yeah.
[00:03:27] Madeline: And I kept drinking.
[00:03:29] Cait: Same.
[00:03:29] Madeline: Yeah. So that was the first time though that I ever, like, I think for a long time in my gut, I kind of knew, but that was the first time that I ever really actually thought about it in a serious way of like, I need to do this now. The next time was after I had moved back home to Toronto and was kind of back into my normal life.
[00:03:48] Madeline: I went to a work Christmas party. So this is at the end of 2019. And I blacked out at the work Christmas party, which was my worst nightmare. Didn't remember getting home the next day. Didn't remember the end of the party. And so that pushed me to do Dry January at the start of 2020. And I had never taken a break from drinking, like ever.
[00:04:09] Madeline: So that was a big one, but I definitely only treated it, like once I got into actually doing Dry January, I treated it as a break. I treated like alcohol was my reward at the end of it. So that kind of shifted. And I didn't stay. Honestly, to me, the Dry January, I felt like I proved to myself at that time that I couldn't be sober and like have a good time.
[00:04:34] Cait: Yeah.
[00:04:34] Madeline: Like that, that was honestly my takeaway from it. Cause the first month is hard.
[00:04:39] Cait: Totally.
[00:04:39] Madeline: So my takeaway at the end was like, okay, oh my God. Like I can't do this. And so finally the time when I actually woke up and thought like I'm getting sober and actually then was the start of me doing it, trying to do it was I guess like eight months later. After that, after the Dry January, I woke up and again, it's always the uneventful nights for me. And like, that was the, the big two. I just had like a girlfriend over. We were my backyard drinking. I woke up the next morning, I had passed out drunkenly on my couch and nothing.
[00:05:14] Madeline: Like I had a text from her being like, thank you for such a lovely night. Like love you so much. And I was an anxious mess as I always was after drinking. And I just the most crystal clear moment ever of like, I'm done with this feeling. Like, I can't feel this way anymore. It was like, we are in the pandemic.
[00:05:32] Madeline: I'd been drinking, like my drinking ramped up as many people’s did. And I was just like, I'm done. I can't do it. And I went on to sober Instagram and then I started like I had my first day one, a couple weeks after that.
[00:05:43] Cait: It's crazy how similar our stories are.
[00:05:47] Madeline: Really?
[00:05:48] Cait: Yeah. Well, like our start date is really similar.
[00:05:50] Madeline: Yeah.
[00:05:50] Cait: Isn't it like a just a couple days apart?
[00:05:53] Madeline: Yeah, I think we're both November, 2020. I'm the 8th.
[00:05:56] Cait: Yeah, I'm the 27th I think.
[00:05:57] Madeline: That's so funny.
[00:05:58] Cait: It's weird that I don't remember that in this moment. It's probably the heat, but I mean, I see similarities too, of like, it really is a journey. Like it really is this baking a freaking multi-layer cake. You...
[00:06:14] Madeline: mm-hmm.
[00:06:14] Cait: ... have these moments of understanding. It's not working out. It's not where you want to be. It's not additive. And for some people, some people have like a one big aha. And for other people, it takes time and either avenue is super valid and super, like just good.
[00:06:36] Cait: Just good to go through it all. When you look back on your other two attempts, how do you view those? Like sitting where you are now?
[00:06:48] Madeline: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:49] Cait: Are you kind to your past self? Are you critical of your past self? If you were critical, how did you get to kindness? Or if you were kind, how did you get to critical?
[00:07:00] Cait: Where do you stand now?
[00:07:02] Madeline: For sure now, kind to myself looking back. If you'd asked me this a couple years ago, probably more critical, but I don't know. I really do believe like you're not ready until you're ready.
[00:07:14] Cait: Yeah.
[00:07:14] Madeline: It's just, everyone's got to get to that point where they hit that, like enough is enough.
[00:07:19] Madeline: I'm tired of my own shit. I can't do this anymore. And whether that's losing your job, losing your kids, like a big rock bottom, or just like waking up feeling like shit. And whether it's leaving a relationship, no matter how clear it is, you just have to get to that point where you're done. And like, it takes a lot of smaller realizations a lot of the time before you can get there, I think.
[00:07:41] Cait: Yeah, totally. I mean, on your second attempt where you did like a full 30 days, did you do the full Dry January?
[00:07:49] Madeline: I did. I stayed up until midnight, February 1st to drink. I poured, at literally at like 11:58 and a half photos of this like timestamped, 11:58 pouring my wine. Countdown, New Year's style countdown to February 1st.
[00:08:05] Cait: Yeah.
[00:08:06] Madeline: To take another drink.
[00:08:07] Cait: I think so many people can relate to that. Honestly I mean, because...
[00:08:11] Madeline: mm-hmm.
[00:08:11] Cait: Even people who don't necessarily think they have a problem. Or take alcohol out of the equation if you say you're not going to eat sugar for 30 days. You can't wait to get that KitKat bar on day 1 after 30.
[00:08:26] Cait: And I think it comes to like how you frame it. So what do you think comparing your intention going into that first 30 days and then your intention in November of 2020. What changed on your perspective?
[00:08:43] Madeline: That's a really interesting question because I think that the January 2020 was really fueled by intense shame about that specific night.
[00:08:57] Cait: Yeah.
[00:08:57] Madeline: And like the fact that I had blacked out at that work party, going to work on the Monday, not knowing, like I have no idea if I did something so embarrassing that I don't remember.
[00:09:07] Cait: Yeah.
[00:09:07] Madeline: And just like I was in such a shame spiral over that for months.
[00:09:12] Cait: Yeah.
[00:09:12] Madeline: And so it was really fueled by that.
[00:09:16] Madeline: But I guess just not really being ready to acknowledge, like I was kind of just like, oh my God, I need a break.
[00:09:22] Madeline: I'm drinking way too much. I need a break. As opposed to really realizing, like, I can't live this way anymore.
[00:09:30] Cait: Right.
[00:09:30] Madeline: Like that was the difference.
[00:09:31] Cait: Yeah, that's a good, I know it was kind of like a heavy question. But like, it's a great answer. ‘Cause I do think that there are so many...
[00:09:40] Cait: ... there are so many programs and there are so many methods of going about becoming sober and whatever works for you works for you. Hands down a hundred percent.
[00:09:49] Madeline: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:50] Cait: Sobriety is really unique to every single person.
[00:09:54] Madeline: Yeah.
[00:09:54] Cait: But I have found with myself and with you and with a bunch of other guests that I've talked to, if it's rooted, if your drive for sobriety is rooted in shame, It's not a strong enough foundation.
[00:10:08] Cait: It has to come from like, love for yourself or determination to be better and do better. And I think that that plays a role in anything. Like, you know, being a shitty friend one day and wanting to, you know, make up for being a shitty friend. So you buy a bunch of flowers and you drop off a cake or something. And it's like a quick fix.
[00:10:30] Cait: And it's great in the moment. But the flour's raw and the cake goes bad and there's no stability there. And it's a really easy solution in the moment and it might feel good for that time. But it's okay to come back and go, yeah you know, I didn't do anything foundationally that allowed for that friendship, that relationship, that relationship with a person or substance to like, flourish moving forward.
[00:10:56] Cait: So I love that that was your perspective shift.
[00:11:00] Madeline: I have never even made that connection until you just asked me that and said that.
[00:11:05] Cait: Me either.
[00:11:05] Madeline: It's not... like literally right now, I realize that was the difference between how I was coming at it. So that's such a good observation on your part.
[00:11:12] Cait: Well, you too, because I mean I've heard so much.
[00:11:16] Cait: And I know there's a general through line, but I think I wish that I would've had that as a barometer when I was going through questioning. Because I did the same thing you did, like everybody does where they wake up in a shame, fueled hangover and swear off alcohol to make themselves feel better. And to numb that shame in like the moment.
[00:11:43] Cait: but... the day after I did that. So many times of being like, I'm not, I shouldn't, I'm not. To then be drinking again. It's like, then that betrayal of your own word that was founded in shame, causes more shame. And then you're sitting with all of the shame from the hangover, from the not being able to drink that you just numb.
[00:12:07] Cait: And what do you know to do to numb? You grab a drink.
[00:12:10] Madeline: You drink. Yeah.
[00:12:10] Cait: So it's a cycle and I think it's like so easy to slip back into. It's so easy. You got out of that cycle. So far, your journey has been linear, yeah?
[00:12:21] Madeline: Yeah. It took me like a few day ones. Like my first day one was September and then my final day one was November.
[00:12:29] Cait: Yes.
[00:12:29] Madeline: So like I had a few, kind of, like two, three weeks, like it took a few attempts.
[00:12:33] Cait: Yeah.
[00:12:33] Madeline: But since then, yeah, it's been like I haven't drank again since then.
[00:12:37] Cait: What do you think…Okay, another deep question. I feel like maybe we're in a therapy session together.
[00:12:45] Madeline: I love it.
[00:12:46] Cait: What do you think from all those day ones?
[00:12:50] Cait: What do you think foundationally changed? Like if you reflected on all of those?
[00:12:55] Madeline: Yeah. My last day one, I feel like it happened in such a perfect way to make things click for me. Because I had gone home for the weekend, I was with my family. And I was with on the Friday night, I didn't drink. So I had probably not drank for two, three weeks at this point.
[00:13:13] Madeline: On the Friday night, I like stayed true to that. And I hung out with my stepdad and my sister, and they were both having drinks and I was drinking my like sparkling waters and I had a really, really fun night with them. And I experienced for the first time, when you get that like natural buzz where you kind of like, feel like you're drunk when you're like not drunk, but you know, you feel that kind of like high without alcohol.
[00:13:35] Madeline: And I felt that for the first time, and that was like such a cool experience for me. And I had such a good night. And then the next day was the last time I ever drank again. And I remember waking up the next morning after that. First of all I just, always experienced, brutal, brutal anxiety after drinking. Like brutal.
[00:13:54] Cait: Me too. Yeah.
[00:13:54] Madeline: So I woke up the next day. I felt so anxious. I felt so terrible. And I realized like I had such a better time on the Friday when I wasn't drinking, like having those kind of two nights back to back.
[00:14:06] Cait: Yeah.
[00:14:07] Madeline: And then the next day I was driving, so I'd been at my parents. I was driving back into the city and I was thinking to myself, like, I'm so excited to not drink tonight.
[00:14:17] Madeline: Because I can't wait to not feel this way tomorrow. And like every time since then that I felt tempted to drink, I've remembered like that specific moment in the car of being like, I can't wait to not drink, cause I don't want to feel this. Like I just think that last time really made it click for me.
[00:14:33] Cait: Ugh. I love that because it's such, it was such a gift. Your choice to kind of regress and go back to old habits was actually a gift. And I think sometimes...
[00:14:45] Madeline: ...biggest gift.
[00:14:46] Cait: We are scared of that regression. And there's a judgment on that regression and not to say it's something people should take flippantly, but I think there's always a lesson to be learned when you tango with life. Which, or you salsa with life. You know, like the cha cha cha, the two steps forwards, the one steps back. It's like a dance that's still getting you out on the floor.
[00:15:10] Cait: And so you got to really milk that and take that experience.
[00:15:17] Madeline: It gave me so much clarity. And that's what I always say is like, if you've drank again, you can use it to fuel your motivation. You can use it to get so clear on like how it made you feel after. And like, for me, yeah, that was, if I hadn't had that experience and I just kept going and kept like white knuckling it…
[00:15:36] Cait: Yeah.
[00:15:36] Madeline: Like, I wouldn't have been as strong in it.
[00:15:39] Cait: So when you finally made that step and you were like, so excited to not be hungover. Which I just love, because like I feel that way too sometimes where I'm like, oh my gosh, if I would've done this, I would be like, so hungover today and I'm not, and that's so epic that I'm not woo.
[00:15:54] Madeline: Yeah.
[00:15:55] Cait: What did you do in your, like, approach? Did you build tools? Did you go on Instagram? Did you listen to podcasts? Like what foundation did you build to take this the way that it's gone?
[00:16:09] Madeline: Yeah, so firstly, my mom got sober when she was 21.
[00:16:14] Cait: No way.
[00:16:16] Madeline: She got, she she's one of those unicorns who had one day one ever.
[00:16:20] Madeline: She walked into AA at 21 and never drank again, like she's close to 40 years sober.
[00:16:25] Cait: Wow.
[00:16:25] Madeline: So like she's been massive, massive support system for me. She sat on the phone with me crying many, many, many times when I was first trying to get so… or just like in the first months and months where I was like, life's never going to be as fun again.
[00:16:40] Madeline: And so definitely leaned on her a ton. I read Quit Lit a lot. I read a lot of Quit Lit. I think that was a huge one for me.
[00:16:50] Cait: And Quit Lit for anybody, like, listening just real quick. Quit Lit is any books that help you quit, right?
[00:16:56] Madeline: Mm-hmm. Yep.
[00:16:57] Cait: It's pretty self explanatory, but just in case.
[00:17:01] Madeline: Yeah. Yeah. So lots of Quit Lit.
[00:17:04] Madeline: I joined a sobriety support group called the Luckiest Club, which was founded by Lauren McKowen, author of We Are the Luckiest.
[00:17:11] Cait: Yes.
[00:17:12] Madeline: I for the first kind of like a month or two went to those meetings on oom. Yeah, those, and Instagram sober Instagram. I started my Instagram account in like my first month of sobriety.
[00:17:23] Madeline: And that's been huge still now at like keeping me accountable, for sure.
[00:17:27] Cait: It's so unique to have a journey where you start kind of publicly, I don't know, like being on social media for a sober account and your first... after your first month of sobriety is kind of a big step, you know?
[00:17:43] Madeline: Yeah.
[00:17:43] Cait: And it worked for you.
[00:17:45] Cait: And I think...
[00:17:46] Madeline: ... yeah.
[00:17:46] Cait: It's so unique because some people, I think, are intimidated by it. And when I say some people, I mean, I was. I was like, so intimidated by like...
[00:17:57] Madeline: I was too. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely was.
[00:18:00] Cait: So like, what did you do? Like how did you walk yourself through that process of like, yep. I'm going to do it.
[00:18:07] Madeline: The way that I did it was, I didn't show my face for six months. Like I kept it anonymous. I didn't tell anyone really in my life about it. And I kept it faceless. So that felt like safe to me.
[00:18:20] Cait: Yeah.
[00:18:20] Madeline: Because I was sharing. So it was, it was like an outlet and it was a way to connect with people, but it wasn't like, I wasn't outing myself to people in my life.
[00:18:29] Madeline: So it felt kind of like low stakes in that way, I guess.
[00:18:32] Cait: Yeah.
[00:18:33] Madeline: And then once I hit six months was when I posted a photo of myself for the first time and like put my face on it.
[00:18:40] Cait: Before that six months did that level of anonymity still kind of keep you accountable in some way?
[00:18:46] Madeline: I think it still did for sure, because I still wanted to practice what I preached.
[00:18:52] Madeline: Like I post, I was posting almost every day and trying to like give motivation and I felt like I would've felt so disappointed in myself.
[00:19:01] Cait: Yeah.
[00:19:01] Madeline: If I was on there talking about sobriety every day and then drank again. So I think it still did. And then I still did make friends on there.
[00:19:10] Cait: Yeah.
[00:19:10] Madeline: Like I made a couple connections who, with some girls who lived in the area.
[00:19:14] Madeline: So I remember saying to one of them, like, by the way, it's kind of weird you don't really know what I look like. You can have my personal Instagram kind of thing. So I did still make connections that were like real through that.
[00:19:25] Cait: Well, that kind of leads me to the topic of friendships because I think relationships and friendships are one of the biggest things people fear, dealing with the loss of so many foundational friendships. I mean, I found that so many of my friendships were built on booze. And so when the booze was gone, they crumbled. And it wasn't even, you know, there wasn't a blowout bite or anything like that, but a friendship lost when you're super vulnerable, like, especially in your new...
[00:19:53] Cait: ... new months of sobriety is a loss that's really heavily felt. Did you go through that at all? And how did you cope?
[00:20:00] Madeline: I didn't go through a friendship loss, but definitely like, it was really tough to navigate some friendships changing. Especially people who were like my biggest drinking buddies, who we bonded over drinking.
[00:20:15] Madeline: And like, I had a lot of guilt about it. I felt like I'm abandoning this person. Like I'm abandoning this aspect of like our relationship that's something that we bond over. And like, I really felt a lot of guilt about it. And like, it was something that getting sober and letting go of alcohol is a grieving process on its own to grieve alcohol.
[00:20:37] Madeline: But then I felt like I'm grieving... relationships and grieving this part of relationships with people.
[00:20:44] Cait: Yeah.
[00:20:44] Madeline: So that was really challenging. I'm lucky to have not lost any friends, but it definitely, it changes everything.
[00:20:52] Cait: It does.
[00:20:52] Madeline: Like, it definitely felt for a while like my whole world had turned upside down.
[00:20:56] Cait: Yeah. I know. And how do you feel now? Like, do you feel right side up? Do you still have the days of feeling like your world is upside down? And if you do feel confident and stable, when did you find that?
[00:21:10] Madeline: I definitely feel right side up now with it. Not to say I don't still have hard days because I do. But...
[00:21:17] Cait: ... of course.
[00:21:17] Madeline: In terms of when I notice, it's funny because I feel like it happens so gradually.
[00:21:22] Cait: Yeah.
[00:21:22] Madeline: I want to say... and certain things, like I've noticed certain changes at different times, like the other kind of unique aspect, which you can relate to I'm sure, is getting sober during the pandemic and being in lockdowns. And so, Toronto was very locked down for a long time. And I didn't go out sober for the first time until I was like seven months sober.
[00:21:46] Madeline: So even... even that, I think at the time I felt like it made it harder, because I was like, oh, we're going through this pandemic. And I'm so isolated now I'm trying to get sober on top of it. But now I really appreciate the timing of it.
[00:22:02] Cait: Yeah.
[00:22:02] Madeline: In that to go out sober for the first time, with seven months under my belt.
[00:22:08] Cait: Yeah.
[00:22:08] Madeline: I think it would've been a lot more challenging to actually stick with it if I was like trying to still have my social life at that time. So I really do think that the timing of it was a gift, for sure.
[00:22:19] Cait: Yeah.
[00:22:20] Madeline: I think the start of kind of like having a social life again, I was lucky to be further along. But one thing that I really noticed that I was thinking about recently, even was just the fact that like socializing for a long time for me after I got sober, felt so exhausting.
[00:22:42] Cait: Yeah.
[00:22:42] Madeline: Like I remember feeling so drained anytime I had to socialize sober.
[00:22:47] Cait: Yes.
[00:22:47] Madeline: I was like, oh my God, this feels like work.
[00:22:50] Cait: I know.
[00:22:50] Madeline: Like, it felt like I had to like get myself in the right head space.
[00:22:54] Cait: Totally.
[00:22:54] Madeline: To like wrap my head around it.
[00:22:56] Cait: Yes.
[00:22:56] Madeline: And I would come home and be like, I can't do anything for days.
[00:22:59] Cait: I know.
[00:22:59] Madeline: I'm so tired.
[00:23:00] Cait: It's like a social hangover.
[00:23:03] Madeline: Yes, hugely. And I feel like I didn't even notice when that shifted, but somewhere between a year and a year and a half, I was like, I'd like done things a few days in a row. And I was just like hanging out with one of my friends and I was having so much fun and I felt like so carefree about it.
[00:23:20] Madeline: And I realized like, oh, like I don't feel that anymore. And like, it was just a shift that I noticed, but it didn't even happen until like after a year for sure.
[00:23:29] Cait: Did your... did the people that you were hanging out with change at all? From when you were kind of exhausted to when you were feeling carefree?
[00:23:38] Madeline: I like to think that I faked it well. Honestly...
[00:23:42] Cait: ... yes.
[00:23:42] Madeline: What I felt like, I don't think I let it on that much.
[00:23:45] Cait: Yes. Yes.
[00:23:46] Madeline: I don't know. I'd have to ask them.
[00:23:49] Cait: But did your, I mean, the people that you were hanging out with.
[00:23:52] Madeline: Yeah.
[00:23:52] Cait: Were they different groups of people from when you felt carefree?
[00:23:55] Madeline: Oh...oh okay. No, same group of people.
[00:23:58] Cait: Oh my gosh. Interesting.
[00:23:59] Madeline: Yeah, but I'm not also someone with like one group of friends where we all hang out. Like I have like close friends that kind of have like individual friendships with more so.
[00:24:09] Cait: Yeah.
[00:24:10] Madeline: So maybe that makes it a little bit easier.
[00:24:12] Cait: Yeah.
[00:24:12] Madeline: If it's not like a big party group.
[00:24:14] Cait: Yeah. I think that that's like so normal to feel exhausted when you, when you go and socialize.
[00:24:20] Madeline: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:20] Cait: I had, I did like an interview with my friend who was ironically, we were like drinking pals when I like first moved to LA. And...
[00:24:29] Madeline: ... yeah.
[00:24:30] Cait: I moved here in like 2013, so almost 10 years now. And we're both sober. We were both the drinkers and now we're both sober. And I had him on and he said the craziest thing that he realized is how he's like a different kind of social person than he ever knew that he was.
[00:24:48] Cait: He was like, didn't want to stay late into the hours. He didn't want to go to parties and hang, unless there was like a point to it. And that episode I'll link in the... in the show notes. It's with Cole. But, I think I find that too of just feeling like there are certain times now that I'm... actually super present for the whole party or the whole dinner or the whole thing.
[00:25:11] Cait: It's way more exhausting. And there's a lot more energy that goes into it. Not just with like trying not to drink, like everybody thinks. So it's so much energy because what are you just like triggered all the time? Not even that. It's just the energy to be as present as I'm physically able to, without tequila in my system.
[00:25:29] Madeline: Yeah.
[00:25:30] Madeline: That was it for me as well. It wasn't necessarily, I mean, in the beginning, I'm sure it was more so of like, feeling like it was making me want to drink, but it was more so just like having to be so on.
[00:25:40] Cait: Yeah.
[00:25:40] Madeline: Like when you have a few drinks and you're loosened up, it's like, you don't care. But when you're just fully there and you don't have that social lubricant, like you're actually present.
[00:25:50] Madeline: And like you, it just feels like you're... you're having to be on and be there.
[00:25:55] Cait: Such a good way to put it being on. Yeah, I know. I know. Well, I mean, being on let's move to being off, which is like shutting down and... and centering yourself.
[00:26:05] Madeline: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:06] Cait: Is there anything that you have learned to implicate to kind of be present just with yourself?
[00:26:12] Cait: Not for anybody else. Like looking inward and is that important in your sober care routine?
[00:26:18] Madeline: Yeah, it is. I feel like it's funny timing for this question, ‘cause I'm definitely at a point right now where I need to be better at carving that in I think.
[00:26:26] Cait: Yeah.
[00:26:26] Madeline: Like it's summer and things are going on and I've really been feeling in the past few days, like, okay. I really need to make sure I'm carving in some downtime for myself. But, I'm a big morning person. And so when I can make myself get out of bed a few hours earlier for work and be able to like sit awake and like read or I'll try to meditate in the morning. Definitely like having that time to myself in the morning is really key for me.
[00:26:52] Cait: Yeah. That's good. And also I love the honesty there. Because look, we can't be perfect people, even if we're not drinking.
[00:27:00] Madeline: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:01] Cait: Even if we've tackled the sober lifestyle and we have a lot of stuff together. There is always something that we can be working on and improving on in our lives, whether that's our diet, eating healthier food, getting more exercise, going on hot girl walks. Or like sitting and meditating in the morning.
[00:27:20] Cait: And... and you don't have to do it all. You don't have to...
[00:27:24] Madeline: ... yeah...
[00:27:24] Cait: ... be perfect. Because that's when I feel like it gets too overwhelming, you know?
[00:27:31] Madeline: That's so true.
[00:27:32] Cait: So wrapping up this convo. We'll stay on the track of self-care and sober care. And if you could give advice to anybody on their sober journey, non-drinking journey, breakup with booze... what is one tool that you suggest people put in their sober toolkit?
[00:27:53] Madeline: I have two.
[00:27:54] Cait: Okay, love it.
[00:27:55] Madeline: I'm going to give two.
[00:27:56] Cait: Okay.
[00:27:57] Madeline: The first one, it's one of the most like, well known. But it freaking works for me at least, is playing the tape forward is so key for me. Because I struggled so badly the next day after drinking with so much anxiety, so much shame. So any time that I've felt tempted to drink, if I can just like, remember really clearly how I felt the next day, that's so important. Because when we want to drink in the moment, it's because we're just like, we just want the relief right then.
[00:28:27] Cait: Yeah.
[00:28:28] Madeline: And so if we can really just like give ourselves a second to think about how it's going to impact us tomorrow or in the future. Something that I also did was I wrote a note on my phone. So I wrote in detail like how I felt after drinking. And I also wrote a note on my phone of all of my worst drunken mistakes, all of the worst morning.... morning afters that I've ever had.
[00:28:52] Madeline: Because like, it just brings me back to the truth. Like if I look at that, I can't stay in my fantasy of like my idea of what I think I'll feel if I drink right now. Like, that's really the truth of it.
[00:29:03] Cait: Yeah.
[00:29:04] Madeline: The other one for me, that's been really, really key, has been to get comfortable with discomfort. I think that like, when we want to drink it's because we're trying to escape the discomfort of that craving, or even just to escape, whatever we might be trying to feel. Even just because we think it'll be fun or we think it'll make us happy...
[00:29:25] Cait: ... yeah...
[00:29:25] Madeline: ... in that moment, but. Something that really clicked for me was when I was trying to get sober. And I had like, I would do two, three weeks and then drink again. Two, three weeks and then drink again a few times.
[00:29:36] Cait: Yeah.
[00:29:36] Madeline: And I was trying to give myself grace. I was kind of being like, oh, I'm doing sober curious and figuring it out, it's okay. Like I did have that mindset about it. Even though I knew I was trying to make it a permanent thing. And I realized one of the last times I did it, I realized like I could keep doing this forever. I'm going to want to drink around the two, three week mark. And if I just like give myself permission to do it every time, then I will stay in this forever.
[00:30:00] Madeline: And I just need to accept the fact, that the desire to drink is going to come up and it's going to suck and it's going to be uncomfortable. And I just have to be willing to sit with that and not drink and trust that it will pass. Because it always does. So those are the two things that really, really have helped me.
[00:30:16] Cait: Ugh. I love them both. I love them both. I really like the first one because you know, people listening you're out there and you're not necessarily ready and you're still drinking. Just write it down. Just write it down. Literally just write down how you are feeling. If you're in hang-xiety on Sunday, take out your notes app, write it in a journal and describe what you're feeling.
[00:30:42] Cait: It's also super therapeutic to just get it out. And you might feel a little bit of relief. But also getting comfort... comfortable with the discomfort is so good. I think grace is so important. And those times of grace that you gave yourself and that anybody gives themselves are valid and important. But if you want to change and you want to grow, you also... you know, being kind to yourself is also holding yourself accountable.
[00:31:11] Cait: So acknowledging that you have the work to do, and you deserve to put the work into yourself and sit in the discomfort because it's going to make you better.
[00:31:21] Cait: So... epic convo. I love this talk. Thank you so much for your time.
[00:31:28] Madeline: Thank you so much.
[00:31:29] Cait: I really appreciate it.
[00:31:31] Madeline: Ah, thanks for having me.
[00:31:35] Cait: Do you want to enhance your sober care routine?
[00:31:38] Cait: Head to Clearheaded.co for tips, tricks tools, and more on this episode. And if you're someone who likes to watch podcasts, we are on YouTube. Clearheaded podcast is sponsored by Free Spirits. Head to drinkfreespirits.com and use code clearheaded20 for 20% off your first order.
[00:31:58] Cait: This episode was produced by Alexis Archuleta. All the music used was created by honeydu. Oh yeah, we have a Spotify playlist too. Ah, there's a lot to check out. Anyways. See you next week.