S3Ep32 || 10 Minutes at a Time || Pt. 2 with Kelsey Rootenberg
*Disclaimer - this episode does not provide professional advice. If you're on the fence about implementing a substance back into your life, we'd recommend speaking with your doctor, therapist, or maybe your sponsor.
We’re back with Part 2 of our conversation with my friend, Kelsey Rose Rootenberg as she shares her non-linear journey with sobriety. We do talk about some triggering topics in this discussion including Kelsey’s choice to no longer be sober after 21 months of not having weed. Substances are always tricky. Some people might identify as sober and still smoke weed, but Kelsey doesn't. And we get into why. She talks about the choices she’s made that feel the best to her and what has been relevant to her overall health and recovery.
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EP 32 - Kelsey Rootenberg (Pt. 2)
[00:00:00] Kelsey: Smoking again, my friends will say to me, like, you're so much lighter now and like, blah, blah. But it's like, I'm not lighter because I'm smoking marijuana. I'm lighter because I'm less angry. Because I've figured out where this part of my life sits in my body today.
[00:00:18] Cait: Welcome to the Clearheaded podcast, your guide to sober care. I'm your host, Cait, and I'm so glad that you're here. Maybe you're on your way to work or you're ready to wind down for the night, whatever the case may be - I'm really happy to be here with you. All of these episodes drop in on people's moments of clarity surrounding their sobriety. Before we get started on this conversation, I wanna ground each other with a little bit of breath. Let's start by taking a big, deep breath in... and out. Okay. Let's get Clearheaded.
[00:01:00] Cait: We've said it once. We've said it twice. We're kicking it off on the third week of saying that sobriety isn't linear. I want to take a second, just to say that we do talk about some triggering topics in this discussion. Part two of this discussion involves Kelsey's choice to no longer be sober after 21 months of not having weed.
[00:01:20] Cait: Substances are always tricky. Some people might identify as sober and still smoke weed, but Kelsey doesn't. And we get into why. I just want to say that if you're on the fence about implementing a substance back into your life, I'd stop this episode and go talk to a therapist or maybe your sponsor.
[00:01:40] Cait: We don't want you to leave this episode under the impression that it will give you the answers you're searching for, if you're on the fence about bringing something toxic back into your life. Okay. I think I've warned you enough now. Let's get into where Kelsey is now,
[00:02:00] Cait: and why she made the decision to implement weed back into her life.
[00:02:06] Cait: So now let's pivot to where you are now. Because this is what's so unique about this conversation is that we say all the time here, that sobriety isn't linear, and that maybe this pivot falls into that category.
[00:02:21] Kelsey: Totally.
[00:02:21] Cait: But also making choices that feel the best to you at the moment are important. And I think regardless of what those choices are in terms of sober, not sober, sober curious, experimenting, I think they're all really relevant to like your overall health and recovery.
[00:02:43] Kelsey: Totally.
[00:02:43] Cait: So fill me in.
[00:02:46] Kelsey: Okay, so when I was 10 months, when I turned 10 months sober. Okay, so obvious spoil alert I'm not sober anymore. Just cutting right to the chase. I do smoke weed again. But when I was 10 months sober, I remember being like curious.
[00:03:00] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:02] Kelsey: And less of a...becuase every day, since the beginning of when I did get sober, I was like, how is this the rest of my life? How is this the rest of my life? There was that fear that I had so often of like, oh my God, I'm zooming out. I can't handle it. And it turned from less of that to the like, something doesn't feel good right now. And I don't know if that's how... I need to figure it out.
[00:03:24] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:25] Kelsey: It was just a question mark. And then I got to 20, 21 months, and I started having a conversation with my therapist because I was walking around upset all the time. But not like, I'm so mad, I want to use. More like, I'm upset...doesn't feel right.
[00:03:40] Kelsey: The only time I felt good about being sober is when someone else congratulated me on being sober. And then it got to a point around 18 months where I just, it would be like, oh my God, like, you're so strong. You're so brave. And I was like, I'm not doing the work. I'm not doing anything. I don't feel good about this.
[00:04:01] Kelsey: Something's not right. And I talked to my therapist for a very long time, for two months, twice a week saying, what if I… I don't remember why I'm sober. And if I need to be sober right now, and if I do, I need to refigure that out.
[00:04:19] Cait: Like, what do you mean?
[00:04:20] Kelsey: Like I came to the conclusion that, okay, I'm going to try smoking weed and it could either be horrible. I could have a panic attack. The second I smoke, I could say, I can't believe I just threw down all my months. Worst case scenario, all this stuff.
[00:04:38] Cait: Yeah.
[00:04:39] Kelsey: But I needed to figure it out myself.
[00:04:41] Cait: Yeah.
[00:04:42] Kelsey: Because my only relationship with sobriety was when people said to me you're sober, congrats.
[00:04:47] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:47] Kelsey: And so I came to the conclusion after two months of being, what if this happens? What if this happens? What if this happens? I came to the conclusion of, I need to experiment and deal with the consequences, but those are my consequences to deal with.
[00:05:02] Cait: Yeah.
[00:05:03] Kelsey: So I made a decision and I said, I'm gonna try this again. And if I regret it, then I start over sober tomorrow. Then I say, well, I'm not 21 months sober anymore. I'm one day sober. And I congratulate myself on that because I know why that's my reality. Versus other people being like... yeah.
[00:05:27] Cait: Do you think that because you went to rehab for the weed and you kind of went in, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong...Because I don't know, but you mentioned the video that you sent to your friend by kind of like laughing off. Is that the mindset that you went into rehab with?
[00:05:43] Kelsey: Yeah, a hundred percent. I went into rehab being like, I know I'm most miserable I've ever been in my life.
[00:05:49] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:49] Kelsey: And I need help.
[00:05:50] Cait: Right.
[00:05:51] Kelsey: But I didn't go. I wasn't like I'm Kelsey, I'm miserable being alive. And I also have a weed problem.
[00:05:58] Cait: Right.
[00:05:59] Kelsey: It was just like, I'm miserable - oh, you have to be sober to go here? Okay I guess I'm gonna be sober kind of thing.
[00:06:05] Cait: Interesting. Yeah.
[00:06:07] Kelsey: Yeah. So then eight months there, I was like, oh, my life is I'm miserable. If there's like a pie chart...
[00:06:16] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:17] Kelsey: ... of my misery. A chunk of it was because I was high all the time with no boundaries. My relationship with weed, was… there was no relationship. It was just one in the one kind thing.
[00:06:31] Cait: Right, right, right.
[00:06:32] Kelsey: And I think that something also to say now, I feel like I have seen people in my life and in the world go from like, I'm sober and therefore like, I'm healed aahh. And then to be like, I'm using again, like screw sobriety. Like that was never me like, blah, blah, blah. And then when I was talking to you the other day and you texted me, sobriety is not linear.
[00:06:58] Kelsey: I've heard people say healing is not linear, grief is not linear. I've never heard anyone say sobriety is not. And I stopped dead in my tracks because I was like, that is it. Because, you know, telling people in my life I'm not sober anymore.
[00:07:15] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:16] Kelsey: Some of the reactions are like - oh my God, you're throwing your life away. Like blah, blah, blah. Maybe.
[00:07:24] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:25] Kelsey: But the bottom line is the only way that I decided that if I was gonna smoke again, the only way it was gonna work, to whatever degree it will work, if it will work...
[00:07:36] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:36] Kelsey: Is if I'm a hundred percent honest and a hundred percent accountable.
[00:07:40] Cait: Yeah.
[00:07:41] Kelsey: Because the reason why I said the people in the world, I've seen people in the world who I've looked up to. It's like, I see myself in you.
[00:07:48] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:49] Kelsey: And then they're sober and they're like, I'm not sober anymore. Screw you guys.
[00:07:53] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:53] Kelsey: Have fun in AA. Like...
[00:07:55] Cait: ...yeah.
[00:07:55] Kelsey: I love weed. I love like, blah, blah, blah.
[00:07:57] Cait: Yeah.
[00:07:57] Kelsey: And that's not what I'm here to say. I'm not...
[00:07:59] Cait: ...totally.
[00:08:00] Kelsey: Here to say, like, I'm not even saying like I'm California sober. Everyone's sobriety is their own.
[00:08:05] Cait: Exactly.
[00:08:06] Kelsey: That's not what I'm saying.
[00:08:07] Cait: Yeah.
[00:08:08] Kelsey: So I'm just saying like...
[00:08:09] Cait: ...so how has it been?
[00:08:11] Kelsey: It's been good, honestly.
[00:08:12] Cait: Yeah.
[00:08:12] Kelsey: In a honest way. It's been good. Because I've been accountable.
[00:08:15] Cait: Right.
[00:08:15] Kelsey: There have been days where I've said to my therapist, like I did too much this weekend. And the number one thing, when I went into it, leaving treatment, I made a harm reduction plan just in case, like, if I want do this again, here's a phone number of someone to call. Here's this, here's this, you know?
[00:08:32] Kelsey: And so I kind of made my own harm reduction plan when I decided I was going to smoke again. But I didn't want to be unrealistic. You know, it's not like I'm not going to smoke during the week. Only the weekends. Because the whole thing is like, I know it's there, which takes a little bit of the pressure off for me.
[00:08:48] Cait: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:08:49] Kelsey: None of this is one size fits all, obviously. But it's mostly good. When I smoked for the first time I was scared I was gonna have a breakdown.
[00:08:56] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:57] Kelsey: And be like, I threw it all away. But it's not linear.
[00:09:00] Cait: Yeah.
[00:09:01] Kelsey: So it's like, I can say to myself tomorrow, I'm sober again for the rest of my life or I'm sober for the next 10 minutes.
[00:09:10] Kelsey: This week, I said, I smoked this weekend. Enough where I felt a little gross about it. So I'm not going to smoke for a couple days. And that's where I'm at, kind of thing.
[00:09:20] Cait: I think it's important to voice that and thank you for sharing it. Because it is like, I think in our society of sobriety, there's a lot of judgment that comes when people are ebbing and flowing and trying things on.
[00:09:34] Cait: And I mean, I feel like I've said it a trillion times at this point. But like, shame doesn't breed evolution. Kindness does. And so it sounds like that's what you're doing by experimenting. You're being kind to yourself.
[00:09:47] Kelsey: Mm.
[00:09:47] Cait: Whether it's the best thing. Worst thing. Okay thing. No thing, nothing.
[00:09:53] Kelsey: Right.
[00:09:53] Cait: Who knows? That's for you to know and your therapist, and as with anybody else listening, it's... there's no way to gauge anybody else's experience and try to make it your own.
[00:10:03] Kelsey: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:05] Cait: But, what I hear is a lot of thought.
[00:10:08] Kelsey: Yeah.
[00:10:09] Cait: And I think that thought is what is missing when we're in our worst turbulence with any substance that we're using.
[00:10:17] Kelsey: Totally.
[00:10:18] Cait: I was never mindful of my drinking in a thoughtful way.
[00:10:23] Sara: Or having boundaries too.
[00:10:25] Cait: Having boundaries, really being able to keep those boundaries.
[00:10:29] Kelsey: Right.
[00:10:30] Cait: And I think what you'll learn and what will be interesting to see. And what will be interesting to see in other people, from their experiences too, is if those boundaries that you create now are able to be long term, or if they can only exist in the short term.
[00:10:48] Kelsey: Totally.
[00:10:49] Cait: Because you have a therapist that you kind of flush all this stuff out with, what are some of the questions that she asked you to really think about when coming back to something that was harmful to you in the past?
[00:11:03] Kelsey: Totally. I love my therapist so much. Love her. The way that our sessions usually go, because I'm so much of a talker obviously. I find it really helpful to just not vent, because vent is a really aggressive thing to me. But just like until I get there a lot of the time.
[00:11:23] Cait: Yeah.
[00:11:23] Kelsey: And she'll like, give me little, like, what about this way?
[00:11:26] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:26] Kelsey: And I'll be like, yes, that way. And so for the two months that I was like, genuinely, like I'm putting this possibility on the table that I don't want to be sober anymore today.
[00:11:38] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:39] Kelsey: Ever since that, it was just me doing a pros and cons list every single day of like, and going… call it, like playing out the tape.
[00:11:48] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:49] Kelsey: It's like, well, what if this was a fear, it wasn't a reality. But one of the things was like, what if my parents don't let me live alone? Or what if my best friend stops talking to me?
[00:12:02] Kelsey: Or what if I hurt someone's feelings by saying this? Or what if I disappoint? Or what if I screw up badly?
[00:12:10] Cait: Mm-hmm...
[00:12:11] Kelsey: ...kind of thing. And the only way that I could get to the next step of reality is by going through every single one of the scenarios I was scared of, and playing the tapes out and being like, well, what if your best friend is mad at you?
[00:12:25] Kelsey: Can you recover from that? What if this happens? Well, then I don't want to do it. So then there's your answer.
[00:12:32] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:32] Kelsey: What if this happens, I'll be upset, but I'll be resentful towards that person. It all has to do with playing the tapes. And so she would help me play the tapes out and kind of be like...she would say to me. Because she knows that I would kind of look for her for approval.
[00:12:48] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:48] Kelsey: For her to be like, go for it. But she's never gonna do that. Just as no one in my life said to me, you know, I think that's a good idea. You should stop being sober and start smoking weed again.
[00:13:00] Cait: Right.
[00:13:01] Kelsey: Remember when you were sick in the hospital, like go there again.
[00:13:04] Cait: Right.
[00:13:04] Kelsey: No one ever said that to me. But my therapist said the thing that the people in my life said as well of just like, are you the most prepared for the worst?
[00:13:13] Kelsey: Which is scary, because the answer's no, you're never prepared for the worst. Just like you were saying, when we're in rock bottom, every single time I've been at rock bottom, I've never been like, let me think this out for a second and see if like, this is a good call.
[00:13:27] Cait: Right.
[00:13:28] Kelsey: Never. It's why you do the work before. And you also say however.
[00:13:34] Cait: Mm.
[00:13:35] Kelsey: Because especially with something like weed, with alcohol, any altering substance, anything you've ever had a bad relationship with, it's like driving a car. I can get my driver's license. I can wear my seatbelt. I can turn the radio off. I can drink coffee. There's a possibility that I will bump into another car.
[00:13:54] Cait: Right.
[00:13:54] Kelsey: Just because you're driving a car.
[00:13:56] Cait: Yeah.
[00:13:56] Kelsey: But I have to be prepared. I have to have insurance. I have to do all this stuff. It's all about me.
[00:14:01] Cait: Yeah.
[00:14:01] Kelsey: Which all of this is. But it's like, it's scary. And the worst thing that I could have done was say, it's not a big deal.
[00:14:09] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:10] Kelsey: I'm going to do it. And the only way that I could go into using again with a clear conscious is by saying, this is not an off the cuff decision. Which is why I took two months to decide.
[00:14:23] Cait: So going, because that car metaphor thing is so good. Why was walking so bad that you wanted to take the risk of getting in the car?
[00:14:34] Kelsey: That's...
[00:14:35] Cait: ...whoa!
[00:14:35] Kelsey: Good!
[00:14:36] Cait: Whoa.
[00:14:36] Kelsey: That's good. I... it was really good. You should write that down.
[00:14:40] Cait: ...we should write it together.
[00:14:41] Kelsey: Let's do it. I was so resentful. And I wasn't resentful at the fact that I couldn't smoke weed. I was resentful at the fact that I was under the impression, and this is not, this feels embarrassing. It's not embarrassing, but it feels embarrassing to say. There was, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, but there was a huge part of me that was like, well, you promised me that if I got sober, everything, all my dreams would come true.
[00:15:06] Kelsey: That's how it felt, for a really long time of like, well, I took away this and it was so hard. And even though I'm still doing it and I'm still miserable. I'm still sad. And I'm angry. I was really angry, as I believe all sober people are at one point or another. All people are. But it's a different kind of anger.
[00:15:26] Kelsey: It got to the point where it shifted between a, yeah like, nah, I'm sober. Damn, but like, yeah, I'm sober. Versus like, I'm sober and I hate myself for it. Because something's not working and something's not serving me. My life is not working the way...
[00:15:43] Kelsey: ...and my whole… something my therapist said is that for months, more than the two months, since 10 months of sober. And I was 21 months sober when I decided to stop. From 10 months to 21 months, I walked around all day. All I could think about was that I was sober. But not in a constructive way, in a resentful way.
[00:16:02] Kelsey: And then I had this conversation with my therapist and I was like, I've been sober and I haven't done anything. And like, my life hasn't changed at all. And I'm slowing down functionally and I'm angry and I'm upset. And she was like, well, maybe because you spent the last 11 months being so upset about being sober, that you haven't done anything else. And I was like, yeah, that's exactly what it is. All I do all day is be upset about this.
[00:16:27] Kelsey: And I couldn't come to anyone and be like, I think my life will be better if I smoke weed. But I came to myself and I was like, I'm so upset constantly that something has to change. And if this is what has to change, I got to figure it out. Because I heard a woman speak in AA and this changed my entire life, and she said, “I'm 13 years sober until yesterday. And I just drank.”
[00:16:57] Kelsey: And I thought about that every single day for 21 months. Not kidding, or however many months it was since I saw her, it was at least 11 months. I thought of this woman who woke up one day and just said, "I'm done, today. Oh, I regret it." whatever she said. And I said I cannot wake up. I am scared to wake up at 13 years and then decide that I have to figure it out for myself.
[00:17:23] Kelsey: I'm not two years yet. I was 21 months. And I said, I have to wake up tomorrow and know that I'm serving myself versus the people around me. So I was at that point sober for everyone else and not myself.
[00:17:35] Cait: Yeah. And I think that's where it all goes, goes wrong.
[00:17:38] Kelsey: Huge.
[00:17:39] Cait: And I heard you say like your expectations, which I think is like maybe called the pink cloud or something.
[00:17:45] Kelsey: Yeah.
[00:17:45] Cait: Like you think like, oh, everything's going to be so great. And then you get past this kind of point of time where you realize like, life is still problematic.
[00:17:53] Kelsey: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:53] Cait: And you still have hurdles and it doesn't fix everything. And then you, you have kind of two choices. You can try to continue sober. And your mind, your frame of mind is not that it's...
[00:18:07] Cait: ...the substance or the lack of substance, that's making it wrong. And it sounds like you went down the other path of feeling like it would be better.
[00:18:17] Kelsey: Yeah.
[00:18:17] Cait: It was the thing that was stunting your growth and evolution.
[00:18:21] Kelsey: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:22] Cait: Did your expectations change on like your life that you weren't happy with? Like what were the expectations that you had that you felt weren't being matched while you were sober?
[00:18:34] Cait: Have they changed? Now that you're using again or not?
[00:18:39] Kelsey: Well, when I got sober originally in treatment, it wasn't a sham or anything like that. But in my head, I was like, oh, the missing piece to my life being bad is I need to be sober. And then I'm going to do everything I want to do. All my dreams are going to come true.
[00:18:59] Kelsey: I'm going to be a functioning, human being. I'm going to be happy. I'm going to have the life of my dreams as long as I get rid of this one thing. And then being sober made me feel proud of myself.
[00:19:10] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:10] Kelsey: For accomplishing that.
[00:19:11] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:12] Kelsey: But then when that pink cloud went away, I was left with the reality of like, I'm sober, but I'm not doing anything.
[00:19:19] Kelsey: I went into treatment. A big reason is because like, I felt I couldn't function. I couldn't get out of bed.
[00:19:26] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:27] Kelsey: Ever. Couldn't brush my teeth, couldn't do anything. And although over the past two years, I got out of bed and I brushed my teeth and all those things. In my core, I wasn't happier.
[00:19:38] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:39] Kelsey: On levels I was. A hundred percent.
[00:19:41] Cait: Right, right.
[00:19:42] Kelsey: And I also want to say like, when I decided to smoke weed again, and now that I have been smoking weed. There's no part of me that's like, well, it's because it's medicine. And it's making me happy.
[00:19:51] Cait: Right.
[00:19:51] Kelsey: It has nothing to do with the weed itself.
[00:19:53] Cait: Yeah.
[00:19:54] Kelsey: Everything and nothing. You know what I'm saying?
[00:19:55] Cait: Right, right.
[00:19:56] Kelsey: But it's more of just like this part of my life that's labeled abstaining from weed… Because my therapist made a point to me even before I started smoking weed. She was like, you're not sober anymore, you're abstaining. And that's when it was like, who am I doing this for?
[00:20:13] Cait: Yeah.
[00:20:13] Kelsey: So yeah. And I didn't like it at first. I was mad at her.
[00:20:17] Cait: Because you were like, how dare you take away my label?
[00:20:20] Kelsey: Especially if I'm still sober.
[00:20:22] Cait: Right.
[00:20:23] Kelsey: Like because I'm pretty sure the only requirements for being sober are you're not using.
[00:20:26] Cait: Yeah.
[00:20:26] Kelsey: And there's an, obviously yes. But also...
[00:20:30] Cait: ...mentally.
[00:20:31] Kelsey: Mentally I wasn't.
[00:20:32] Cait: Yeah.
[00:20:33] Kelsey: And so smoking again, my friends will say to me, like, you're so much lighter now and like, blah, blah. But it's like, I'm not lighter because I'm smoking marijuana. I'm lighter because I'm less angry because I've figured out where this part of my life sits in my body today.
[00:20:52] Cait: Yeah.
[00:20:53] Kelsey: And today I'm not putting pressure on. It's like I'm not... white knuckle. I spent 21 months like this.
[00:20:58] Cait: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:21:00] Kelsey: And now I'm like this.
[00:21:01] Cait: Yeah.
[00:21:01] Kelsey: And today that's okay. Maybe tomorrow I'll need to do this again.
[00:21:05] Cait: Yeah.
[00:21:06] Kelsey: Or someone will tell me, I need to do this again. And then I'll have to. But 10 minutes at a time.
[00:21:11] Cait: 10 minutes.
[00:21:11] Kelsey: And for right now I'm not sober and that's serving me. And when I was sober and other people would be like, oh yeah, like I'm not sober anymore. I'd be like, I hate you. And I took it really personally. And I would say, you're doing this to me and you are a horrible person. I didn't actually say that. I was like...
[00:21:30] Cait: ...but in your head. That's what you thought.
[00:21:31] Kelsey: In my head, I was like, you're a liar and a cheater and you never know what I feel. And you're out of the club and I hate you.
[00:21:38] Sara: And you're out of the club.
[00:21:39] Kelsey: Get out of here. And then, so when I decided to get sober, I was like, oh my God, I'm a liar and a cheater and I'm out of the club. Which is true.
[00:21:48] Sara: When you decided to not be sober?
[00:21:49] Kelsey: When I decided to not be sober, I was like, I'm giving up the perks. There are perks being sober.
[00:21:56] Sara: Uh Duh!
[00:21:57] Cait: Duuh!
[00:21:58] Kelsey: But I'm giving up the perks that mattered to me even when being sober didn't.
[00:22:02] Kelsey: I love the attention. Because I love attention, I'm a Leo. And I love attention. Happy Leo season, everybody. But it was really hard for me, for me to put away my chips. And say I don't know what to do with these. And to say... to tell people in treatment who text me, oh, happy 22 months. Like even you, Sara.
[00:22:24] Sara: Yeah.
[00:22:25] Kelsey: It was like, ouch. It was nothing you said and you weren't, you didn't even text me. Like, by the way, we're both sober. That means we rock.
[00:22:33] Sara: Yeah, totally.
[00:22:35] Kelsey: You were just like, hey, want to come on this podcast? And in my head, my head went to, I'm a liar and I am a terrible person. And you are going to read this text and be mad at me because that's how I did to everybody else.
[00:22:48] Kelsey: And I get it. And all I can say is like, I'm not the number one thing in saying I'm not sober anymore. All I want people to hear from me is like, not that I matter or should matter more than anyone, but like, if I was talking to me and listening to me at the same time. Six months ago, let's say.
[00:23:08] Kelsey: I would say to myself, it's okay that you're upset with me. It's okay that you don't feel as close to me anymore. It's okay that you resent me. And it's okay that you think I’m screwing up. And you think I'm gonna crash. That's okay. Anything you feel is okay.
[00:23:24] Kelsey: I say my family, my friends who didn't want me to, or do want me, whatever, not my feelings. Because this, the whole point of me being sober and not being sober is saying, I need to figure this out for myself without anyone else telling me.
[00:23:42] Cait: Right, I think that that's healthy. And I think you're anything but a liar. Because of your vulnerability, your honesty. This is not an easy conversation to have. It's probably not easy texting two sober girls saying like, I'm not sober anymore, but yeah.
[00:23:58] Sara: I'm like want to come on our sobriety podcast. You're like, here's the thing I'm actually not sober anymore. And I was like, yeah, cool. Sobriety's not linear.
[00:24:06] Kelsey: That was insane too.
[00:24:07] Cait: What I can say that I think you are is true, honest and exploratory.
[00:24:14] Kelsey: Ooh!
[00:24:15] Sara: That's a word.
[00:24:16] Kelsey: Thank you.
[00:24:17] Cait: And I think that you're exploring yourself. And that version that you're in right now might not be quote unquote, sober.
[00:24:25] Kelsey: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:25] Cait: But I think that your intention is still true to finding out how to live a life that doesn't revolve around a substance.
[00:24:34] Kelsey: Yes, that's it. Everything has a place. And where is the place? And before weed, there was no separation between weed and myself.
[00:24:43] Sara: Even when you were sober.
[00:24:44] Kelsey: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:45] Sara: Because when you were sober, you were just thinking the whole time about how you couldn't do something.
[00:24:50] Cait: Exactly.
[00:24:50] Sara: So your life and thought still revolved around that thing.
[00:24:53] Kelsey: Exactly.
[00:24:54] Sara: Yeah and if you want, if there's a point in time later, when you're sober, it's going to be because you've decided, this actually doesn't serve me and I don't want to do it. Not because something really bad happens. You had to go to treatment.
[00:25:07] Cait: It’s you looking at the substance separate from you and walking away from it and not tethering it to you. And trying to ignore it.
[00:25:16] Kelsey: Exactly.
[00:25:16] Cait: So I'm excited for what you figure out, what you uncover.
[00:25:20] Kelsey: Yeah.
[00:25:20] Cait: And I really, really appreciate your honesty.
[00:25:25] Kelsey: I'm so grateful. And I could come back on the podcast in one week and say, oh, I screwed up. I'm… have to be sober. I'm one day sober.
[00:25:32] Cait: And I think keeping that in the front of your mind and to anybody listening, because I think we all have these questions in our head of, could I manage it? Should I go back? Oh, it's tempting. This, that and the other. Like leading with grace and understanding and allowing yourself to mess up is the only way that you heal stronger.
[00:25:55] Kelsey: And genuinely.
[00:25:56] Cait: Yeah.
[00:25:57] Sara: And I think always we go back to saying it out loud.
[00:26:00] Cait: Yeah.
[00:26:01] Kelsey: Yes.
[00:26:01] Sara: Like if you're really repeatedly thinking about something like, oh, I wonder what it'd be like if I drank, what…. The reason you've been able to do this, like in a way that's... you have grace with yourself and you're not just like, oh, I relapsed. And it's because you said it out loud, you talked to your therapist about it. You really thought about it. And like, you vocalize those internal thoughts.
[00:26:21] Kelsey: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:21] Sara: And so always to be reminded of like, just say it out loud, like. It's totally okay if you're feeling like you want to drink and you just say that out loud.
[00:26:30] Kelsey: Yeah.
[00:26:30] Cait: Yeah.
[00:26:30] Sara: It's like the first step.
[00:26:31] Kelsey: It doesn't mean…anything
[00:26:32] Sara: or using a substance. Yeah.
[00:26:34] Cait: Yeah.
[00:26:34] Sara: Doesn't mean that you did it.
[00:26:36] Cait: Or that you have to try it.
[00:26:38] Sara: Yeah.
[00:26:38] Kelsey: Or that you're back sliding. It's literally just a thought. And they're all valuable. All the...
[00:26:43] Cait: yeah.
[00:26:43] Kelsey: …thoughts that you have.
[00:26:44] Cait: Yeah. Okay. Well, wow. What a convo.
[00:26:48] Cait: Thank you for listening to Kelsey's journey with us. We are back on track next week to sit down with somebody who is sober. And they jump into their moment of clarity over a path that is actually super linear. Over 13 years of linearity to be specific.
[00:27:08] Cait: Do you want to enhance your sober care routine? Head to Clearheaded.co for tips, tricks tools, and more on this episode. And if you're someone who likes to watch podcasts, we are on YouTube. Clearheaded podcast is sponsored by Free Spirits. Head to drinkfreespirits.com and use code clearheaded20 for 20% off your first order.
[00:27:31] Cait: This episode was recorded at the Wave Podcasting studios and produced by Alexis Archuleta. All the music used was created by honeydu. Oh yeah. We have a Spotify playlist too. Ah, there's a lot to check out. Anyways. See you next week.